Curse

Drasu · Jun 28, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Since barragepet's 'nerfing' where pets could no longer be exploited, the build has pretty much gone off the map in terms of widespread use. I decided to go back to the concept and turn the build in a new direction to try to make it viable again.

While still having the same idea of combining a league of damage addition modifiers like order of pain, Ebon ward, Great Dwarf weapon, Winnowing, "Dodge this!", and Favorable Winds, on top of the standard +damage to barrage to have the rangers gain around +100 unconditional damage to their barrages, the ton of +damage modifiers in the build also made Dual Shot and Triple Shot attractive for some potent single-target damage.

This time around, however, the purpose of the pets are not to be cannonfodder for necromancers, but to be used as the reciever for a variety of weapon spell buffs. This is where two variant midlines are created in the build- on one hand, you could use a communing ritualist, spamming Great Dwarf Weapon on the rangers, and Brutal Weapon on the pets, allowing for a spread of unconditional damage on the pets, as well as being able to use Weapon of Quickening on his allies to decrease the recharge times of key skills (ie. ebon wards, enfeebling blood) on the necromancer as well as himself. He needs a ton of energy though, thus forcing the necromancer to bring blood is power, which is a decent skill pick anyway considering the monk setup in this build. As well, considering the nature of Brutal Weapon, keeping the pets alive is a must with this midline setup. On the other hand, you could take a channeler, which on top of spamming Great Dwarf Weapon like the communing rit, spams splinter and nightmare weapon on the pets, which is probably more damage, but not as reliable as Brutal Weapon. It is also completely in the green in terms of energy management, allowing the Necro to take an elite like Glyph of Renewal, placing full mobility of the ebon ward on that position. Whatever midline you choose, the pets will be doing a sizable amount of damage, as well as to allowing the rangers to utilize Never Rampage Alone.

All in all, offensively you'll be packing a wallop, with the barrages becoming a targeted Ursan Rage, pets swarming the area with damage buffs, and Dual Shot and Triple Shot allowing you to crush any single targets in your path. Defensively, the build is on the weaker end of the spectrum, with block stances and enfeebling blood being relied on to stop most of the damage- the healer's boon can clean up the rest, but lack of prot on him will obviously be a problem in concentrated damage areas like the UW or DoA.

It's another bleeding-edge offense and defense build for those of you who enjoy the flavor.

I hope you enjoy it.

Barragepet Redux @ gwShack: http://gwshack.us/f1005

Shayne Hawke · Jun 28, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Interesting build concept, especially with designating weapons to be placed on pets.

Is one Monk enough?

Drasu · Jun 29, 2008, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Thanks for the reply.

I do think that one monk is enough for this build- most of the rangers have a block stance, the necro has enfeebling blood, and great dwarf weapon on all of the rangers guarantees knocklocks on a cluster of monsters, negating a lot of damage to warrant having only one monk. As they say, a great defense is a great offense!

Depending on which variant you use, your monk can also go into a healing frenzy when he needs to, spamming heals left, right, and center while being held up on energy by Blood is Power. You can do this with the other variant as well, but to a lesser degree, since you're using Blood Ritual instead.

The Meth · Jun 29, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Looks fun and high damage. I have tried 4 or 5 barrage rangers casting GDW on each other in UW and vanquishing before, the knockdowns alone pretty much prevent 95% of all damage, so anything not immune to knockdowns is automatically toast.

-Lotus- · Jun 29, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

volley + elite > barrage

Lord Xivor · Jun 29, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

"Dodge This" - "your next attack" always means only one more attack, so only one of the arrows will get the bonus.

Replace that. You also need another monk. One will not be enough. If anything, bring an imbagon with "Go For The Eyes" and an Arcane Orders dervish.

Drasu · Jun 29, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Xivor

"Dodge This" - "your next attack" always means only one more attack, so only one of the arrows will get the bonus.

I'm aware of how the mechanic works. It's still a good still to bring because if you catch a group of monsters, one of your arrows will be ~+15 damage for free after each barrage. Energy is already tight enough on those bars.

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You also need another monk. One will not be enough. If anything, bring an imbagon with "Go For The Eyes" and an Arcane Orders dervish.

I disagree. I think you are really underestimating the damage mitigating potential of Great Dwarf Weapon. Again, if the going gets rough, the monk can rely on energy jolts like Blood is Power or Blood Ritual to power-heal.

Besides, to get rid of the rit position makes the entire build obselete to other mainstream builds; you will be losing too much damage.

The Meth · Jun 29, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

How about replacing the monk with another rt and turning both rits into GDW spammers/healers? Basically the whole second half of the rit's bar could be dropped off in favor of restoration skills, then duplicated for another rit. 5 rangers + 5 pets with GDW would be awesome.

Drasu · Jun 29, 2008, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

How about replacing the monk with another rt and turning both rits into GDW spammers/healers? Basically the whole second half of the rit's bar could be dropped off in favor of restoration skills, then duplicated for another rit. 5 rangers + 5 pets with GDW would be awesome.

Feasable, but not very efficient. By speccing into resto, you not only sacrfiice your offensive potential for a weakened defense, but you have to spam a 10 energy skill every 5 seconds, but pump out heals on top of that. They'll be completely dependent on BiP, which I'm not really comfortable with. The defense/healing is fine, really- try the build out with some friends, and you'll see.

If you want to get more out of GDW, you could always remove Nightmare weapon or splinter (I would reccomend nightmare) on the channeler variant and replace it with Arcane Echo (and replace rebirth for Flesh of My Flesh). I toyed with the idea, but the demand for energy on such a bar is too much even with ghostly-hasted Offering of Spirit and Essence strike, resulting in the necro having to blood ritual you occasionally, and the tempo of the build felt better with nightmare weapon.

Eric Clapton · Jun 29, 2008, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Like the idea a lot, if only people still ran it.

Broken Baby · Jun 29, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

i suggest replacing dodge this with [i am the strongest]

it affects 4-8 barrages, not 4-8 arrows, and it adds the damage onto each arrow. ive tested it with a volley/splinter

Ministry Of Peace · Jun 29, 2008, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Wow, this looks like a promising build indeed!

However, can't the rangers just use zealous bows for energy management, freeing up the necro to go with orders? Also you might consider dropping barbs for mark of pain, freeing up a lot of energy on the necro for arguably more damage output in a tight cluster.

Also you might consider using wielder's zeal on the rit as opposed to weapon of quickening, to facilitate better energy management. This would free up the need to take elementalist as the secondary profession.

For additional defense, consider making one or two of the rangers go warrior secondary for Save Yourselves!

Also one thing I am wondering, is how you expect to gain a clean aggro... You might consider just taking the monk out altogether for a 600 tank or the like to establish a clean aggro. The only person that should be really getting hurt is the necro from lifestealing, which the rit should be able to more than handle. Note also to be sure to take BR on the necro in this case, in case the tank needs more energy between mobs.

Could also use a tank something like this:

[build prof=Dervish/Warrior][Hundred Blades][Mystic Regeneration][Mystic Vigor][Mental Block][Great Dwarf Armor][Rending Aura]["Save Yourselves!"][Mystic Healing][/build]

One advantage of a build like this is that it would also have decent damage output with GDW. Could replace one of the rangers with something like this for clean aggro at only slightly diminished damage output.

Furthermore, Triple Shot and Double Shot seem kind of worthless since barrage has 1s recharge... I would replace them with Pain Inverter or something similar.

If you go with the dervish tanker, you could take out the current monk for something like this:

[build prof=Monk/Mesmer][Mantra of Inscriptions][Blessed Signet][Vigorous Spirit][Vital Blessing][Essence Bond][Life Bond][Spell Breaker][Strength of Honor][/build]

This would give decent damage reduction to the tank, as well as improve the DPS of all the rangers. If you go with this, you'll definitely want BR on the necro. If you want you can put in Judge's Insight, but it will conflict with orders and mark of pain, so it's probably best not to.

The Meth · Jun 29, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drasu

Feasable, but not very efficient. By speccing into resto, you not only sacrfiice your offensive potential for a weakened defense, but you have to spam a 10 energy skill every 5 seconds, but pump out heals on top of that. They'll be completely dependent on BiP, which I'm not really comfortable with. The defense/healing is fine, really- try the build out with some friends, and you'll see.

If you want to get more out of GDW, you could always remove Nightmare weapon or splinter (I would reccomend nightmare) on the channeler variant and replace it with Arcane Echo (and replace rebirth for Flesh of My Flesh). I toyed with the idea, but the demand for energy on such a bar is too much even with ghostly-hasted Offering of Spirit and Essence strike, resulting in the necro having to blood ritual you occasionally, and the tempo of the build felt better with nightmare weapon.

How would it be losing damage and defense? You are gaining much damage and defense by using GDW over Brutal Weapon on everything (GDW can be kept up on everyone and pets with 2 rits ). This also means you can either drop communing entirely and go for rest/spawning (to keep GDW up 100%) or stay communing for your Weapon of Quickening and just use that and restoration to keep your GDW's up. The second rit can take one of the other ebon vanguard wards to keep armor or recharge buff. Granted the casting of GDW every 5 seconds will distract from healing, but I think with 5 people and pets attacking with GDW you will never see anything standing upright. Even if a monster gets near you the rangers are going to be shutting it down hugely, giving you tons of time to heal inbetween strikes.

As far as I am concerned if you bring a BiP you better be using it and the energy its providing, otherwise you have a wasted character slot. If the party could survive well enough on its own then the character is useless.

Bring Lightning Reflexes instead of Whirling Defense, its better even if you aren't getting the full IAS buff. I also have to wonder if the ranger casting spirits is going to be slowing the group down more then helping it, so you might consider removing it.

Drasu · Jun 29, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broken Baby

i suggest replacing dodge this with [i am the strongest]
it affects 4-8 barrages, not 4-8 arrows, and it adds the damage onto each arrow. ive tested it with a volley/splinter

Really? In that case it would probably be the better option then, yeah. I'm still a bit concerned over energy issues on those ranger bars, but hopefully zealous mods on the barragers will be able to pay the cost.

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However, can't the rangers just use zealous bows for energy management, freeing up the necro to go with orders?

Eh? I don't really get what you're asking here. The rangers are using zealous bows, and the necro is running orders.

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Also one thing I am wondering, is how you expect to gain a clean aggro... You might consider just taking the monk out altogether for a 600 tank or the like to establish a clean aggro. The only person that should be really getting hurt is the necro from lifestealing, which the rit should be able to more than handle. Note also to be sure to take BR on the necro in this case, in case the tank needs more energy between mobs.

Getting clean aggro should be pretty easy- just as with classic barragepet, the rangers just send their pets in first and let them tank the monsters, and even if monsters switch priority, the pets form a wall of bodyblocks to keep monsters from choosing any other target.

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Also you might consider dropping barbs for mark of pain, freeing up a lot of energy on the necro for arguably more damage output in a tight cluster.

The barbs is more for putting on the occaisional hard-armored target or boss, so that the rangers can just rangerspike the target down with triple/dual shot. Barbs really adds to that damage, as you could imagine. Good idea though- you could probably wreck a lot of clustered mobs faster with MoP.

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For additional defense, consider making one or two of the rangers go warrior secondary for Save Yourselves!

Good idea. A shame it doesn't affect the pets, though.

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Bring Lightning Reflexes instead of Whirling Defense, its better even if you aren't getting the full IAS buff.

True, that.

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I also have to wonder if the ranger casting spirits is going to be slowing the group down more then helping it, so you might consider removing it.

Once the ranger gets the spirits down, he'll just drag 'em along with summon spirits, which is basically instant cast and radar range. The spirits add an additional +10 damage to the barragers and +4 damage for the pets, and also give spirit fodder to the channeler variant of the build- it's worth spending ~5 seconds every 90 seconds or so to have those advantages, IMO.

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How would it be losing damage and defense? You are gaining much damage and defense by using GDW over Brutal Weapon on everything (GDW can be kept up on everyone and pets with 2 rits ). This also means you can either drop communing entirely and go for rest/spawning (to keep GDW up 100%) or stay communing for your Weapon of Quickening and just use that and restoration to keep your GDW's up. The second rit can take one of the other ebon vanguard wards to keep armor or recharge buff. Granted the casting of GDW every 5 seconds will distract from healing, but I think with 5 people and pets attacking with GDW you will never see anything standing upright. Even if a monster gets near you the rangers are going to be shutting it down hugely, giving you tons of time to heal inbetween strikes.

A fair point. I'm still not convinced splitting the job between two people is the best idea, though. Arcane Echo on the second variant will get you about the same aim you're looking for without having to put both both jobs together.

Thinking about it as well, restoration seems kind of weak on this build, since you're looking at having all of your frontline under a weapon spell, which is a big loss for a resto rit, as having prot in the same line as your heals is what really separates restoration from healing prayers. Now you're down to a contest of healing power between a healer's boon monk and two resto rits spamming GDW, and due to the fact that the monk has easily accessible, powerful, quick-casted AoE heals, party-wide heals, or just straight up heals like healing ribbon, Ethereal Light, and Heal Party, which IMO, outclass the rit's heals of the same fashion (and doesn't need a blood ritual/BiP to keep him going, thus giving him a safety net for when he needs to power-heal), I would personally opt for the monk.

Again, Arcane Echo on the second variant midline rit would easily give you the results you're looking for without making them vampires (aha, see what I did there?)

Don't let me stop you though- if you want to go with a backline of two resto Great Dwarfers just build something up and try it- it's only PvE after all! :P

The Meth · Jun 29, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Heh, I have no chance of getting a team together to actually run this. Most of the good players I know log on maybe once a week to chat with people. Everyone else I know doesn't care enough about running cool builds anymore and just ursans/sy/whatever. The best I can get is finding 2 or 3 pug rangers who like barrage and also have GDW and we roll with that on a random mission.

Ministry Of Peace · Jun 30, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

I see what you mean about barbs and triple shot, however the same would apply for Mark of Pain. If you were to hex a softer target with mark of pain, then the more heavily armored target would be taking the damage as well, assuming it is within range. Furthermore, it would likewise trigger thrice, dealing astronomical armor ignoring damage, whereas barbs merely adds a small amount of physical damage, which is still subject to reduction from the armor.

I suppose the pets could draw a fairly clean aggro, however this would be a somewhat unreliable solution in hard mode in elite areas, due to the speed with which the pets would die. You'd have to knock-lock the mob basically as soon as aggro was established, which would be difficult considering the casters, rangers, paragons, etc. very rarely charge RIGHT into melee range. Also note that SY! would help keep aggro on the intended targets (the pets) since mobs tend to go after the target with the lowest armor.

Richardt · Jun 30, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Nice build.

However, on the necro bar I assume that BiP is mainly there to support the rit and monk? If so, why not replace Order of Pain with Blood Ritual and BiP with Order of the Vampire? You'd get more unconditional damage+life stealing, which will ease the burden off the monk. And if you're working on only one or two casters, BR is more than enough (and if your monk is having issues healing with 7 pips of energy regen there's an issue).

And why two Ebon Standards of Honor? If they have the Vanguard max, the duration will cover the recharge. I'd replace one of them with the Standard of Courage-get a nice +24 armor for the party (assuming of course you don't have one of the rangers using SY!).

EDIT: I believe Mark of Pain causes enemy scatter, so while it's nice to use on bunched up enemies, it would cause them to move more reducing the effectiveness of Barrage and the pet wall.

Drasu · Jul 01, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ministry Of Peace

... it would likewise trigger thrice, dealing astronomical armor ignoring damage, whereas barbs merely adds a small amount of physical damage, which is still subject to reduction from the armor.

Barbs is also armor-ignoring damage, actually. The skill choice is depending on preference, really. If you prefer to have more area damage, you have mark of pain, and if you want more single-target hate, you have barbs. I'm a fan of the latter, that's all. Richardt brought up a good point as well- MoP will trigger the AoE scatter effect, so you'll have to hope that you can get lucky with your Great Dwarf Weapon procs to keep the monsters clustered.

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Also note that SY! would help keep aggro on the intended targets (the pets) since mobs tend to go after the target with the lowest armor.

This is true. I still don't know if SY! would be all that amazing on something that isn't an imbagon though, even with the nature of barrage.

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why two Ebon Standards of Honor? If they have the Vanguard max, the duration will cover the recharge.

Your team will be (hopefully) killing things fast with this build. You need multiple wards for mobility purposes.

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However, on the necro bar I assume that BiP is mainly there to support the rit and monk? If so, why not replace Order of Pain with Blood Ritual and BiP with Order of the Vampire? You'd get more unconditional damage+life stealing, which will ease the burden off the monk. And if you're working on only one or two casters, BR is more than enough (and if your monk is having issues healing with 7 pips of energy regen there's an issue).

The BiP is mainly for the ritualist- as you could probably tell, spamming a 10e skill on a 3 second recharge, among other things, with nothing for energy-management but a glyph of lesser energy and renewing memories will definitely need some good energy boosters. This is where BiP steps in, which will be able to fill in the demand for energy. Blood ritual probably won't be able to fill that gap.

As well, order of the vampire and order of pain do the same amount of unconditional damage, really- It's just that OoP adds to your bow damage, so that things like prot spirit/shielding hands (which we always see in PvE, right?) will catch it.

Feel free to try it out, though- as said before, this is only PvE we're talking about here!